Parenting Balance Podcast
Parenting Balance Podcast
018 Internet Safety with Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall
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This is the 2nd part of the 2-part series of our talk with Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall about human trafficking. This episode focuses on the internet as the primary means for human traffickers to target unsuspecting and vulnerable youths for their own personal gains. Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall provided valuable insights on how parents can protect kids against online predators without overstepping private boundaries.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall received her MSW degree in Social Work from the University of Buffalo and worked as a Psychiatric Social Worker in the areas of Domestic Violence, Children and Adolescent psychiatric inpatient units, outpatient clinics, Crisis Services, and in the Juvenile Justice system. She earned her Ph.D. in Social Welfare at the University of Buffalo and has taught at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, the University of South Florida, and currently at Saint Leo University.
Here at the Parenting Balance Podcast, you'll find simple, science-based tools and tricks for parenting kids with ADHD or anxiety. Although we are both family therapists, this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not replace the guidance of a qualified professional. Join us as we debate and discuss our own experiences as parents of kids diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety and breakdown the latest research into easily digestible portions. We created this podcast to educate, inspire hope, explore new ideas and discover together what we know to be true: you are not alone, and finding a community of support can make all the difference. Please join our Parenting Balance Podcast Community here and sign up here to be the first in line for our new Modern Guide to Understanding Kids With ADHD mini-course.
Hi, everyone, welcome to the Parenting Balance podcast. My name is Kelly Williams. I'm a licensed Clinical Social Worker, and an ADHD parenting expert by experience. I'm here with my partner.
Teresa VanPelt :Hi, I'm Teresa VanPelt. I'm a licensed Mental Health Counselor and anxiety parenting expert by experience. And for the past 10 years, Kelly and I have had a family practice in Florida. This podcast is for parents who want to really understand what's going on with ADHD and anxiety so you can ditch the chaos and feel confident and happy again.
Kelly Williams :Hi, welcome to the second part of our two parts series, where we talk to Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall about human trafficking. Dr. Lisa Rap-McCall is a Professor of Social Work at St. Louis University. Her research focuses on violence, school violence and human trafficking. In addition, she teaches a course on human trafficking at the university, and does a lot of reach out work to the community or outreach work to the community to educate people on human trafficking. Thank you so much for being here. Dr. Lisa. This is really an important topic for parents to know about. And I know that in the first part of this series, you taught us that human trafficking is a 150 $ billion industry. I had no idea about that. You taught us that it is the 3rd largest crime industry in the world and that it can happen to anyone, because the traffickers are such skilled manipulators, that really human trafficking doesn't discriminate, right? It can happen if you're wealthy if you're poor, if you're, you know, an intact family, divorced family anything because these traffickers are such good manipulators. So today we want to get into more about you know, because this is such an insidious, underground problem, how do parents like us, how do we, how do we insulate our family from this? How do we keep ourselves and our kids safe in the digital age, especially when our kids are some I'll speak for myself when my kids are better at doing technology than I am. How do I write like how do I keep them safe from this? Can you help me understand it?
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Sure. Thank you so much for having me back. It is hard and the kids are so much better at technology. I always feel, you know, five steps behind, you know what's going on. But I think the main thing is helping them understand boundaries and trying to set those boundaries either in the regular physical world with people that we may meet, or even online. And there are a few things that parents can do the the tech wizards have taught us a few easy things that parents can kind of check on and look at, for instance, that we don't have to be tech wizards ourselves. One thing that they suggest is that the password that's used for the cell phone or the laptop or the iPad or whatever is a family password, so that kids don't get to have a secret superduper special password that you don't know about. The likelihood is that you bought the phone, the the laptop and the iPad, it's yours. So this the password should be, you know, saved and shared that everyone knows that password. And then knowing that you know it and can look at certain things will will help a little bit already.
Teresa VanPelt :Well, that's a sort of a boundary. Right there. You know, I know that I teach that a lot in my practice. I have a handout that I call the tech contract, right. And I encourage families and I especially encourage parents of very young children, to keep in mind that it's really never too early to start with this eventhough, it doesn't seem like that, you know, it doesn't seem like kids are old enough to understand that. The problem is by the time they are old enough to understand they are resistant to parental involvement. So if, if you know, what I teach is that we've got to create this family culture that there is no, we are all open about all of our electronics, and we model this for the whole family. And that's kind of what you're talking about, by having a password. That's awesome.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :That's a great idea. And so we're setting the stage with these rules, just like we did when they got a bike, just like there were going to do when they get that car or whatever. it's a responsibility, but there's rules, there's boundaries, there's a culture in the family of what we do. And one thing that parents can do is, is look at those cell phones. And again, this is a conversation and if the kids know ahead of time You know, then they know but there are certain places that parent can check on the cell phone that are not too hard even I can do it. And I'm very simple with my technology skills that they can be checking just to see what's going on with their with their child and that phone. So of course, you know, checking text who is sending the text and what are the content or pictures being sent around also, but another thing that I never thought of is go in and look at the photos and videos that your child has taken. They're stored on that phone, and you can see immediately if there's anything that's not okay. And you can have a discussion about that immediately. And I like what you're saying Kelly is the earlier you start this the better.
Teresa VanPelt :Right, the more normal it feels to two kids, you know, and I know that in the trainings over the years as this has evolved, because basically over the course of our careers, you know, I started in a time when there really wasn't internet, certainly not on a phone in your pocket, right? And, you know, so this, this idea that the access, right that this openness, this access this that kids can, no matter how you try to control it, they can still get to the information has created the shift in how professionals are being trained to talk to parents about, you know about this. And so, so the most recent shift that I've noticed is now we're encouraged to talk to families about getting started with social media as early as possible, so that you can do it with your child so that your kid is right. So so you want to be maybe sharing your Facebook with the child or Like I have a smart TV, and sometimes we'll put it up on the TV and do it on the TV together or look at YouTube together and be selecting appropriate videos together. And I can kind of model how, oh, I see this video. But do you see what it says right here that's not appropriate for your age. So we're not going to look at that one. We're going to delete that and take it out of the feed. And I can kind of show how you do these things, where it's not like a situation where the child's been doing it, and now they're interested in curious and then we're telling them No, stop that you can't do that.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :I love that idea. Because it's similar to what we do with television shows and movies, right? And how we socialize them. You know, how we go along with them to show them social skills, or how do we act at a restaurant? How do we act at the mall, it's the same thing. And so I think that's a great idea. So The earlier we do that the better. And then the checking is up to parents. But it can be a good way just to check in and make sure everyone is following the rules that we set. There's one other thing that on the cell phone under settings and of course with different phones, you can google how to do this for your own phone. But if you check the battery usage of the kids phone, you can see what apps they've been using. So this is interesting. They were supposed to be doing their homework on the such and such app, right. But you can see now that they've been on for hours on the YouTube app, as opposed to their schoolwork app or whatever other app, and that gives you a good sense of what they're doing back in their room or when you don't see them on that cell phone. Where are they spending their time what apps etc even GPS history can tell you where they have physically been with that phone, they were supposed to be at such and such house or whatever they were at other places that can tell you immediately if they're going to places that, you know, we're not asked or we're not, you know, approved by you or others, even internet history can tell you what they're googling what they're looking at. And again, you can google and find out the steps. It's only a few steps for each type of bone. But these are little checks and balances that can be done with the cell phone and they're not very sophisticated or too hard for parents to do.
Teresa VanPelt :Such good ideas, you know, and I, I, I gotta admit, like, you know, it's life is so busy, it's hard to remember to do these things. Yes. I mean, it's kind of like one of those things where it doesn't seem to come to mind until it's a problem. So kind of having these conversations and making it part of the weekly routine, right? Every Wednesday I check it or every Friday, Sunday morning, or whatever it is. The other the other way that I try really hard to do this is I have a charging station in the house, right? So it's sort of like, you know, remember back when we had to go to the library to check out a book, right? And then you had to return the book. You know, every night I want everyone to put all the devices in one place. And that's where they charge and of course, it's in a central location in the house, not in your bedroom, not anywhere. And then you know, when I have a little extra energy at night, I you know, I can take a few minutes, go right there and get the device: look, check all these history things. And kind of just, you know, it reminds me to be doing to be doing that because, um, you know, it gets to the point where my son who's 15, it's really hard to get the phone out of the hand. I mean, it's like he goes into a panic attack. If I asked him, man, like if I say you can't have your phone for 10 minutes, because I want to look at it. His blood pressure goes up and just said that. It has nothing to do with what I might find on the phone. It has to do with that he doesn't have the phone in his hand. Do you know what I mean? And that's why I like the idea if people have young kids to start this out young, because it's harder. It's kinda your role. Yeah, but it's not impossible. I mean, it could definitely happen. But if it's just a normal, natural part of life, we've had to figure it out because technology has evolved and and it still will evolve.
Kelly Williams :Yes, right. We didn't have you know, when our kids were younger, we in fact, the rules were different back then, you know, remember being advised? You know, that not to let them have it until a certain age? That recommendation has completely flipped now, and it's like now start as young as possible, and show them what to do with it. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's really different. And I know to like, the I just set an appointment with my son's neurologist the other day, and he's quite elderly, actually, you know, I mean, probably nearing retirement, but he's asking the same questions that he that people used to ask, right. And since COVID, it felt really unreasonable, you know, and so for example, you say, well, how much time are your kids spending in front of a screen? And I'm thinking in my head, well, when was the last time that you had to work from home and school from home with your kids all at the same time? I'm getting a little defensive about this. Yes, they're spending a lot of time on screens right now. But what else can we do? Right? They're home.
Teresa VanPelt :If that's how they're socializing with other kids and preteens and teenagers really need, they need social interaction the safe way for people to do it now. A lot of parents that I work with are relaxing their, you know, the amount of time like they let them on it longer to account for the social stops.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I'm on screen longer now that we're in COVID, too. So it makes complete sense. And unfortunately, when earlier when this first began, we thought we would see a decline in human trafficking incidents during COVID. We've actually seen the opposite. There are more reports of human trafficking because unfortunately, the traffickers are manipulating. And they're smart enough to know that they go where the kids go. And if the kids are online, they're going online as well. There's a couple apps that I just want parents to be super aware of. TikTok is very popular as we know with the kids and adolescence and it's been fine until recently. Recently, there's been some more incidents of traffickers on TikTok going there to recruit the kids and again, they know where the kids are going so they're going to. So be cautious of the kids on TikTok and make sure you're talking to them a lot about that. And then two apps which are really, really scary. One is the kik app, k-i-k it's like messenger and so it's like private chats. Well, It's really criminal and sexually focused. And it's really a pedophile playground. So the kik app should be a hard NO, for any kid. It's just nothing on there that relates to kids. And the second app is the Whisper app. People post and that's all fine. But then it says, who's nearby me and it starts putting in the addresses of people nearby, and then they start meeting up and again, this has been really criminally focused and sexually focused, so it's really not a place for kids at all. So the Whisper app should also be a hard NO for kids.
Teresa VanPelt :Um, is there a need to like block like, if you do the parental controls on the phone does it make it so they can't get at those apps?
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :I'm not sure. I have a feeling that we have to keep checking and making them delete it. Um, I don't know if there's another way around that, honestly.
Teresa VanPelt :In my experience, in my practice, I can say that when parents take away like they can't text on the phone, often kids will use other apps to communicate with people, to communicate with their friends. So that means that parents have to do extra steps to see if they're on other things. Also, I know that a lot of kids are pretty savvy. And if they see that their parents checking where they are, then the next time they go, you know, in quotation marks, spend the night at Susie's house, they leave their phone at the location that they're supposed to be and then they go. But also they delete the apps a lot and delete messages and things like that. So I think I mean, I'm not super tech savvy, but the parents that I know who is, you know, it's like they have to keep.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Yes, it's so hard. And there is a place to go to see recently deleted, there's a recently deleted folder on every phone. So again, if parents Google how to look at that things that we thought are deleted are there for 30 days. So you have a chance to see if they may be doing that deleting kind of thing right before they know you're going to check or things like that.
Teresa VanPelt :Yeah. And don't share that information with your child. Right. The more they know, the more they can get around it.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Right. And I think the other pieces that we can't always police them and we're not police officers, and to Kelly's point, like, we don't always have the time to sit down, you know, with three phones, maybe have three kids and go through all of this. So I really think about it also as keeping up those good communication relationships. And I think that's almost more important, right, that we have those relationships with kids, our kids that, you know, are, you know, very solid, and we're trying at all times even through those difficult tweens or teen years that to let them know that we love them, no matter what they do, we're not going to stop loving them. We might not love every behavior or every choice, but we love them and saying it to them frequently, letting them know by our actions and our words that we're with them and that they can come and tell me anything. You know, that's what I would say to my kids is like, no matter what, you can come and tell me everything, I promise not to flip out and scream. We'll figure it out together.
Teresa VanPelt :Yeah, there's never been a time when family culture, becoming a protective factor has been so relevant, I don't think, right? Like, like that openness to, to just helping and willingness to, to be understanding about what our kids are going through. And in a time when us as the parents, we we simply can't relate, like, right. I mean, this stuff didn't exist when we were their age. And so I think that's kind of a blessing in that we can, I don't know be less reactive to it, because there's just no chance that we had the same risk or opportunity to happen to us. I think another, I think another tip for parents and now I'm talking about parents of kids with ADHD here. Because oftentimes, you know, kids with ADHD are really resistant to suggestions, right. And I have this strategy that I teach parents where I call it like, kind of the back door idea. And that is to, you know, to say to your child, rather than to say I want to keep you safe, you could say, you know, I want to, I want you to know that I love you, and I love your friends too. And if there's anything going on with one of your friends and you need an adult to help, I want to be the person. I want you to come to me so that I can help you with this. And it's like if you take the direct attention off of your teen, but say I know you value your friends, I know your friends are important to you. And if you have a teen, that's the developmental age and stage that they're at. So that's absolutely true. And then you say, I want to help everyone, they're going to be more likely to be open to that than if you if you directed it only to them, if that makes sense. And then actually wanted to add to that another backdoor method. And this is something that I use is when my one of my kids say something to me, like, oh, I have a friend and her parents hate her. Now, you know, this is a 14 year olds, you know, version, her friend, her parents hate her now, because she told them that she's a lesbian. And so it has nothing to do with human trafficking. But I say, you know what, I hope you know that you would be able to tell me anything, like I wouldn't be mad, you know. So I use all these little examples that she gives like, oh, someone's So came home with an app and her parents blah, blah, blah. And then I just I kind of say that same, you know, you know, you can tell me anything, we'll get through anything together.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Right. And it's, it's hard for them because they don't have that life experience. So they think it's just the end of the world that they sent, you know, a picture of themselves topless to this person. You know, as adults, we would say, okay, we'll get through it. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but to a teenager or a kid that really feels so you know, awful like they've made the worst mistake ever and they don't realize so that telling them that if we're safe, we're okay. We're going to listen, you can come to me with anything about you or your friends. It's just it's a wonderful way to set that stage and culture to make it you know, a safe relationship.
Teresa VanPelt :To that point, you know, the consequence of these technology mistakes, you know, that kids all kinds of kids make all the time. But one of the consequences is that that often with teens, the effect is so devastating that they can even become suicidal. Right? So absolutely don't ever want to, I guess, you know, minimize or try to on you know, we really it's so hard, I think for us to be able to relate to what they're going through again, because we didn't get to go through it. But so you know, so, so it's a good, good idea to really just try to be asked questions, right, like, try to put yourself in their shoes try to understand from their perspective before, you know, forming a judgement, it's really hard. iIt is hard, but I don't think it's if we actually look at our lives and we're really honest, I don't think it's too hard to understand how something like that can happen. Um, and I will give you an example like on Facebook, I get a lot of messages from people, I don't know. Oftentimes, they're men who are very attractive, who when you look on their profile, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, like shady stuff, like it's a new, a new Facebook page and things like that. But if I didn't look at any of that stuff, it's a man with an excellent job, who graduated from an Ivy League college or MIT or something like that, like all these things, and these men are trying to get to know I'm not going to say just me like other women, and they're asking like details of their life. And, you know, like, I can see how that would be easy for someone you know who's lonely or sad to get manipulated.
Kelly Williams :Or even a teenager who's in that middle stage of brain development where the amygdala right the feeling center of the brain is exploding and growing and all the volume is turned away up on the emotions. And the frontal lobe hasn't you know, hasn't gone through the growth spurt yet even things out. So, there it's part of our normal development that there is a period of heightened emotionality for humans. And yeah, if you consider that when you're reading all these things, and even parents because you're right Teresa, we we can see some of those enticing things. And of course, we know not to look at that. But if we imagined, you know that, that that seemed really interesting to us, then we can kind of put ourselves in their shoes for sure.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Right? And before you know it, you're answering and just chatting and telling this person now knows that, you know, I have three daughters, they're this, that that age, I work here, I live there, you know, and before you know it in a few sentences, they know way too much about us. And that's how it begins. They're listening, they're tracking, and then you know, they're going to try to see what it is that we're looking for, and what do we want to need in life or whatever and fulfill that and so it becomes really, really easy for it to happen. So when we do hear about it, or if our kids do come and tell us, we have to believe them. You know, first that this kind of stuff does go down. Yes.
Teresa VanPelt :Yeah. And then it's not their fault. Right?
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Right, that this is just what these folks are doing. And I often told my daughter, If it sounds too good to be true, whether it's the perfect job, it's just you have to meet here and go there, or it's the perfect boyfriend. You know, that's really sounds way too good to be true. It seems too good to be true. It's probably too good to be true. It's probably not true. So you know, use your gut also is another thing I like to tell kids and adults too. If you get that weird feeling. Get out, you know, there's something going on. You don't need to know exactly what it is, but just get away from that person.
Kelly Williams :Yeah, yeah. Use your gut. That's good advice.
Teresa VanPelt :Mm hmm. Definitely, um, if parents suspect that their child may be be in the process of being lured or something like that, like what can parents look for? What can parents do? Yeah. What are some red flags? Maybe? Yeah,
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Yeah. So parents might see some change in behaviors. So it could be, they're gone for large periods of time. They're running away. They're hanging out with these new friends that you haven't met yet or they won't bring to the house, etc. You might also see like a change in mood. Maybe they're really extra moody and depressed or anxious. New or expensive items that they can't really explain where they've gotten some new clothes. They don't seem like the typical style of clothes that you're trying or adolescent wears, they've got new hand bags and makeup and purses or even the boys because trafficking is boys and girls all ages as well so new or expensive gifts, they're becoming more and more distant from the parents and families. You might see new tattoos or brands or marks that seem really weird property, have a barcode on the back of the neck a property of so and so, those you know they may not be where you can see and they may be typically where clothes are. But if you see anything new like that any bruises, physical abuse, you know sprains, etc. Any STDs and pregnancy. Now I know alone those sound like you know could be anything, but when you put it together, it may be cause for concern.
Kelly Williams :Well, yeah. So I know a lot of our listeners are parents of very young young kids. I'm guessing I don't know for sure. But I think most of our listeners have maybe elementary school aged children as opposed to teens. And, you know, so what's our, maybe we can kind of wind up this episode on prevention, and just kind of recap what we, what your advice is for parents of young kids to get started with creating that family culture that can become a protective factor against this kind of risk.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Sure. Well, that discussion about who's a stranger and who's a friend. I think that's a really important discussion to have as a family physically in the real world, but also online. I love your idea Kelly of joining them on Facebook or other social media platforms that they're on YouTube, TikTok, whatever it is, and kind of walking through why that might not be okay, or why this video is okay, or why you're seeing red flags of this person or that person. I think that's a great help. I also would say keep up those communications and relationships at all times, even through, you know, the difficult tricky times keep up that relationship and let kids know, you are there for them. You love them and there's nothing that they can do that's ever going to stop you from loving them. And whatever happens you will figure it out together. And if you do find that they're involved, somehow, you know, to believe them and also to get them the therapy or help that they would need. Human trafficking is like child abuse, domestic violence and psychological abuse all wrapped up into one. And it's not something that we can just say, although grow out of it or it'll be fine after a year or two, they really do need therapy to help them get through that, that difficult time.
Teresa VanPelt :Yeah, so this is a multi traumatic experience, if it should happen.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Absolutely. Absolutely.
Teresa VanPelt :Yeah. And and parents shouldn't feel like they have to be the one to put everything back together.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Absalutely it should be a team, you know, the pediatrician, maybe a neurologist is involved, maybe a nutritionist, you know, maybe you know the psychological therapy, as well. It may be group and individual family therapy, all of that. So it's gonna take some doing and it's beyond just, you know, parents themselves taking care of it.
Teresa VanPelt :Wow. So is there like, is there like a1800 number or something that you know, people can call if...
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Yes, if you suspect something, whether it's in the neighborhood, in your community or with your own child or friend of your child, please do call the National Human Trafficking hotline number. It's 1-888-373-7888. And this is open 24 hours, seven days a week. You can do chat, you can do text, you can call they know over 200 languages. And again, you don't have to know for sure, this isn't the police, but it's about suspicions and they can locate law enforcement and work with them to try to investigate that. And that number again, is 1-888-373-7888. That's the National Human Trafficking hotline number.
Teresa VanPelt :That's awesome. I definitely feel like I understand more and I know more now. It's definitely helped empower me as a parent.
Dr Lisa Rapp-McCall :Great. Thank you for having me.
Kelly Williams :Thank you so much for being here. Dr. Lisa.
Teresa VanPelt :Thank you for listening to the parenting balanced podcast. To join our mailing list. Go to parentingbalance.com/podcast. When you join you will be notified of upcoming live Q and A's. You can help us plan future episodes. We'd love to hear comments and questions. You can reach us by email: hello@parentbalancing.com And if you found this information helpful, please share it with anyone else who can benefit and subscribe and give us a rating on your podcast platform. And until then, remember, different isn't wrong