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Parenting Balance Podcast
017 Human Trafficking With Dr. Rapp-McCall
•
Teresa VanPelt and Kelly Williams
•
Season 2
•
Episode 17
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Human trafficking is a 150 billion dollar industry and the third-largest crime industry in the world. The idea of human trafficking is so disturbing that many parents can’t imagine having a conversation with their children about it. In this episode, we talked to Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall about the subject. Dr. Rapp-McCall explains the different types of human trafficking and the dynamics of the relationship between the trafficker and the victim. She also tells us what we need to know about how victims are recruited and trafficked. You can learn more about human trafficking here and here. The Human Trafficking Hotline is available around the clock and serves victims and survivors of human trafficking across the United States 1-888-373-7888.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall received her MSW degree in Social Work from the University of Buffalo and worked as a Psychiatric Social Worker in the areas of Domestic Violence, Children and Adolescent psychiatric inpatient units, outpatient clinics, Crisis services, and in the Juvenile Justice system. She earned her Ph.D. in Social Welfare at the University of Buffalo and has taught at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, the University of South Florida, and currently at Saint Leo University.
Dr. Rapp-McCall’s research expertise includes crime and violence, child abuse, school violence, human trafficking, and program evaluation. She teaches Human Behavior, Research Methods, Evaluation, Child Abuse and Neglect, Children’s Services, Human Trafficking, and Causes and Control of Anger and Aggression.
Here at the Parenting Balance Podcast, you'll find simple, science-based tools and tricks for parenting kids with ADHD or anxiety. Although we are both family therapists, this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not replace the guidance of a qualified professional. Join us as we debate and discuss our own experiences as parents of kids diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety and breakdown the latest research into easily digestible portions. We created this podcast to educate, inspire hope, explore new ideas and discover together what we know to be true: you are not alone, and finding a community of support can make all the difference. Please join our Parenting Balance Podcast Community here and sign up here to be the first in line for our new Modern Guide to Understanding Kids With ADHD mini-course.
Kelly Williams
And then, balanced balance podcasts. My name is Kelly Williams. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and an ADHD parenting expert by experience here with my partner. Hi, I'm Teresa Vanpelt. I'm a licensed mental health counselor and anxiety parenting expert by experience. And for the past 10 years, Kelly and I have had a family practice in Florida. This podcast is for parents who want to really understand what's going on with ADHD and anxiety. So you can ditch the chaos and feel confident and happy again, welcome to our first episode in our two part series on human trafficking. Dr. Lisa rat McCall is a professor of social work at St Louis University. Her research focuses on school violence and human trafficking. In addition, she teaches a course on human trafficking, and does outreach work to the community to educate people on human trafficking. Thank you so much for being here. Lisa that's what my kids calling you. Is it okay if I call you Dr. Lisa today. Absolutely. And I'm happy to be here thank you for inviting me. Yes, this is really exciting. So for our listeners I'll just quickly mention that Dr. Lisa and I met when I back when I used to work at the university. And she and I became friends because we were I think the only two faculty who had kids, we were the only parents in the department right.
That's right, that's right.
Yeah, so we noticed right away you know that sometimes our perspective on things was different in that we were always thinking about our family. And I, that's one of the reasons that I really wanted to have you on the podcast to talk about this topic, which isn't the most pleasant of all topics. Right.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right.
Kelly Williams
It's a heavy. It's a really heavy one. But it's so important for parents to know about. So, Let's, let's I can't I couldn't think of anyone better to help us kind of understand what is human trafficking and kind of how you know what what do we need to know about this. In order to, you know, know how to, how to help our kids stay safe on the internet. Yeah, it's, it is a heavy topic, it's, it's not something we want to talk about but I found through my research, and learning that it's really important. And it's happening more than we thought it was. And it's pretty serious so just thinking about being a parent, I really want to get that information out to everyone, and there's some myths also that go along with it, that don't help. So if we can get rid of some of those myths and really get down to the facts of what we know I think that'll help us as parents as well so human trafficking is the exploitation of someone for the purpose of labor or commercial sex acts, and it involves force, or fraud, or coercion. And some have called it modern day slavery, because people are kind of tricked, and trapped into doing things that they didn't necessarily understand that they were going to be doing. And certainly didn't want to do, but then are really trapped and can't get out of that terrifying. Really, and yes, I, I think for myself I mean this is one of them miss this problem doesn't happen in the United States. It is, it is or a myth that people are trafficked into the US and it doesn't happen to our own citizens but that's not true. The US is a destination country. and it's one of the biggest buyers of human trafficking so we buy a lot of trafficking which we're usually not aware of because it could be through labor, or it could be through sex trafficking. So it does happen in the US, it does happen to our own citizens can be the victims and yes we all saw traffic from the outside, into the US.
So, that like is making my brain hurt
a little bit.
There are people living in our communities who are buying
sex slaves or labor slaves.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Absolutely, yes.
It can be children, it can be adolescence, it can be adults, it's men, and it's women. It's really, it can be anyone, there's no real profile of what a victim is, except that they are vulnerable in some way. And that vulnerability is what the traffickers play on to lure and pull them into this situation, thinking just as a human, and as a therapist I think that we're all vulnerable at different points, and I can imagine myself feeling like I'm not gonna fall for this.
Teresa Vanpelt
But, and I think a lot of people
probably are in that similar situation like oh I would never fall for that but
I'm guessing that they're pretty savvy.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Absolutely. We've all fallen for you know and mistaken someone to be someone who we thought they were but they weren't whether that was dating or friendships, or collegial things right. So we've all fallen and Miss took someone for their true intent. And so, I think it can happen to anyone actually because we've had victims who were very well educated, very wealthy
to,
you know, the very impoverished or people who are homeless or people who are refugees so it really can happen to anyone Teresa.
Teresa Vanpelt
Yeah, and I can imagine I know that
in the times where I thought someone was someone different and I trusted them, and they turned out to be someone different I just know how embarrassed. I felt, and how I didn't really in the shame and I didn't want to tell people and I can imagine that if someone can, you know, once they realize that they're in this situation like that would be really hard to reach out to other people to let them
know you know if there's a time that they can.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right. And the traffickers are really adept at luring people in but also keeping people in so another myth is we often see these pictures of like people chained to beds or locked in a room that actually rarely happens, the trafficker controls people by manipulating by emotional abuse by physical abuse, sexual abuse shaming them isolating them from friends and family, getting them addicted to drugs so they actually control them a lot like domestic violence if you know anything about that or dating violence, they kind of control them, psychologically. And so they don't do these kind of things of locking people away so that makes it even harder than for this victim to get away from the trafficker or that labor trafficking, or sexual trafficking that they're in.
Teresa Vanpelt
I know that you had mentioned that there
that oftentimes it involves
the victim
being vulnerable in some ways can you kind of give examples of the vulnerabilities that that you're talking about. Absolutely. So, lots of times, you know, we'll see kids who were running away, or they're homeless, they are very vulnerable, then to a trafficker. Victims of trauma or child abuse have that history now, and they are vulnerable people with mental health problems. Maybe they're isolated maybe they're impulsive. Maybe they're anxious or worried or don't have many support systems. They are vulnerable. And in addition, just our typical kids who right now in the pandemic are bored. They're lonely, and they're online a lot. So, any of those are examples of being extra vulnerable to traffickers. Lisa you study. I don't even know how do you Where do you get the data for the research that you do, I guess because I'm what I'm getting at is, you study the cases of people that have come forward to survive this awful experience right but but how many people are out there that that we might not know about you know how prevalent Do you think this problem really is. It's hard to say because it is a covert, and secretive type of crime. But when we look at the numbers. And for any listeners who are interested, Polaris project is a great site to go to a respected site that really details and collects data on human trafficking and provides a lot of other information as well. But there's over 40 million victims worldwide and this is a worldwide problem. And it's 100 and $50 billion industry so it's the third largest crime in the world behind drug trafficking, and firearm trafficking so human trafficking is the third largest crime, across the globe, if you will. It's a huge problem. Well, we get our data from a few different points. The victims who have called in the Polaris project, they have data out there so that's wonderful to have. And I also work closely with the Pasco County Sheriff's department where we're tracking human trafficking crimes that are coming through. And so that's another way to look at that and see but there are so many that are out there that are secret and undercover that we don't know about. If you think about the Jeffrey Epstein case as an example of human trafficking.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
And that went on
for decades. And it's been years and years now since it happened but it took that long to really uncover and really start believing the victims when they did come forward and actually very few of all of his victims have actually come forward. Right, I could see where and I guess this is the heart. This is the reason why we want parents to know this information right because one of the reasons why it's so hard to come forward, is the lack of understanding, you know, the shame about how I got into this and and I don't know how to get out of it, and the fear that other people aren't going to understand and aren't going to help me. Maybe. Absolutely. The traffickers, might speak just a little bit about how they luer. And what kind of tactics they use because that might help the listeners understand how kids can get pulled into this, or even adults, but
they they follow online
or try to find these people who are a little vulnerable maybe they're sad depressed, that abuse background have some mental health problems they're lonely they're bored, and they get to talking to them. And that could be a lot online, but it could be face to face, and they start befriending them, and they're listening to them, which is the most important part and they're getting them to talk and tell them about themselves, their family, their situation. And they appear to be this wonderful wonderful friend to this vulnerable person, they're listening they're supportive, they're kind, and they're listening for what that person needs. Are they homeless do they need money, do they need shelter do they need food do they, you know, need a place to stay a hot shower, are they online and you know no one understands them their parents are going through a divorce or they're just bored or they're being abused at home they listen. And they're taking that in and they're providing something to them that they need love kindness food, gifts, money, all of that. So, I might just, you know, as you are saying, with this vulnerability is I can't help but think from a developmental perspective, you're basically describing whatever human goes through in adolescence. Absolutely, and especially now right we're really all isolated a lot and we're lonely, we're bored for sure.
Teresa Vanpelt
Definitely check off that list.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right. Right. And so this wonderful person is coming into their lives and giving them the things, the very things that they're needing and looking for. And before long, you know, and this can be months that they take to make this relation have been kind of. Yeah, and maybe at some point they say you know I want to be your boyfriend or girlfriend I love you and there's this and that going on.
And then before long,
Kelly Williams
maybe, you know, I, they send the user a naked picture, all that's fun that's funny you do one now, you know, and then they send one back, and now they've got, right, because now I can tell your parents, I can show this to anyone. Because you sent that picture, or maybe they've sent some pornography just to normalize it make it like it's no big deal. This is what people do. And then we start going from there. They may ask to meet up with them at the park at the mall as the whatever, and start getting to know them so the violence and abuse and terribleness comes after this whole time where they've been wonderful. And so, and develop this relationship. Right. And I know from, you know I guess the current social workers, we have to do you know this ongoing training right to kind of stay up to date in the changing landscape of things that impact mental health. Right. And so one of the, one of the things that I have noticed in the years, and many years now. I've been a social worker is the perception, like how our kids understand their safety or risk online. You know, we have done the talking. And we do the teaching to our kids and they can say to us. Yes, I understand. I know that I can't trust everybody that's online. But when we when researchers look at what kids know about how to keep themselves safe, and then compare it to what they do. They see this difference as if the kids. They logically know, but from an emotional standpoint, they are still conned by this they still make the mistake, they still reveal things to people who they really don't know. Because once they get a sense that, you know, once they feel like they know the person they think they do. Does that make sense. Yes, absolutely. And the traffickers who are, you know, adults are very well trained and honed. This is their job, they're experts in doing this so they're very good at doing this. And remember, you know, they're like, 25, and our kids are what kids tend to 20, you know, or whatever so they have that age advantage they have the expertise advantage to con them from the power, and the power
Teresa Vanpelt
of differences in the sign of power.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
And the other thing is some of our traffickers are women because women are very good at listening we're great at making and having relationships, and the traffickers if you think of it like a business. This is like a hierarchy. So the head traffic or, you know, maybe a male, but he knows that women can bring in more people because people will trust adult women more than adult men. Again, I'll go back to the Jeffrey Epstein example, his counterpart his partner in crime delaine,
a woman
would go and get many of the girls for him because they trusted her, they said she seemed like a big sister she was real nice and she listened and she gave me money and help and advice. Yeah, it's, it's hard, you can't blame anyone for getting pulled into it. Right, right. So if if parents suspect that their child might be involved somehow it's really, really important for parents to understand it is not your child. It's not the kids fault. Right, Absolutely, yeah and you know I think from again like a cultural perspective as social workers in domestic violence and child abuse in sexual trauma treatment, you know, that's always been part of the work has been to. We have to convince people that this isn't your fault. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's a lot like child abuse, and family violence, domestic violence we spend a lot of time trying to explain, and help that victim realize that they were the true victim and not, you know, part of the problem. And you're right, it does take so long, but it is very similar human trafficking is very similar to that. And remember, they also know things about them so they can say, if you don't continue to do that, I'm going to kill your dog. I know where you live. And I know how much you love little hit out fluffy. So they will directly threaten, or I'm gonna get your sister involved in this, your little sister. I'm going to tell your parents I'm going to send these naked pictures around, you know because I can get on your Facebook account and your Instagram account and whatever and whatnot.
They threaten them. Yeah.
Kelly Williams
It's really, you know, and I want to,
I guess I want to move more into prevention. Right. This is really hard to think about and I know, as a parent of a tween, and a teenager, myself, that I feel so powerless to help them especially my teenager, you know right he's just 18 years old, and I don't feel able at this point to control what he's doing on the internet. You know I'm kind of I feel like I'm at the place where I have to trust that what I've taught him, you know, up to now, and our relationship is gonna be the thing that's gonna keep him safe because I can't keep him off of it. Does that make sense right like I clamp it down I can't just say, Okay, this scares me. I'm not gonna let you have it, like that's not an option here, you know, right, right. And at that age too. I mean, who's telling 15 year olds what to listening right they're not listening to us very well so you're right, we can't just say, you know, you can't be on your laptop or phone they actually have to have it for school now so you can't just automatically do that so we have to think of some different ways to try to prevent and get them to try to understand. Yeah.
Teresa Vanpelt
The second
part of the series The second interview is going to be more focused on what we can do to protect our kids. But I think Kelly brought up a good point about kind of showing your kids and whatever ways that you're open, they're not going to. You're not going to give you more of an understanding. Yeah, you know, when I think about it, I remember I'm gonna, I'm going to give away my age here, but do you remember when mom's Against Drunk Driving first became a thing right and they had a PSA on TV and it said, you know, have this conversation with your kids, no matter what if you are somewhere, and you're in trouble. You can call me, no questions. Right. And like the PSA about in the moment if there's trouble. You know how do you how do you convey to your child that you come to your parents, and you will be safe, right, like, like I can promise you I'm not going to overreact. I'm not going to shame, you're not going to whatever whatever. And I kind of like the internet. Maybe we need to start the same kind of thing there right like if you get in trouble online, come to me and I promise I won't freak out, you know, but I think we have to show them and other parts of our lives that we don't freak out about things, because if we freak out about other things and we say we're not going to this time.
Kelly Williams
Yeah, then
I'll speak for myself. Do you know
that my kids understand how the internet better than I do. You know like I don't think I'm normally freaking out. Although, you know, they might tell you otherwise. But when I don't understand what's happening because I just my brain doesn't understand the technology like they do. They, they perceive it as I'm freaking out because I'm asking so many questions like, right, like how did they write, you know this kind of thing. And so, it's that like it's kind of that problem that I'm talking about like how do you help that in order to to create this safe space for them to come to you, you know. Right. Well I think in our next episode I have some tips that parents might be able to take away, and I'm no tech expert either but the tech experts have taught us a few things that we can do which are basic and might help parents kind of deal with that.
I cannot wait to hear it.
Teresa Vanpelt
Yeah. So I hope you guys join us for the second part in the series where Lisa shares some tips and ideas on how we can keep our kiddos safe. Thank you for listening to the parenting balanced podcast, to join our mailing list, go to parenting balanced. COMM slash podcast. When you join you will be notified of upcoming live q&a. You can help us plan future episodes, we'd
love to hear comments and questions.
Kelly Williams
You can reach us by email. Hello at parenting balanced calm. And if you found this information helpful, please share it with anyone else who can benefit and subscribe and give us a rating on your podcast platform. And until then remember, different isn't wrong.
And then, balanced balance podcasts. My name is Kelly Williams. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and an ADHD parenting expert by experience here with my partner. Hi, I'm Teresa Vanpelt. I'm a licensed mental health counselor and anxiety parenting expert by experience. And for the past 10 years, Kelly and I have had a family practice in Florida. This podcast is for parents who want to really understand what's going on with ADHD and anxiety. So you can ditch the chaos and feel confident and happy again, welcome to our first episode in our two part series on human trafficking. Dr. Lisa rat McCall is a professor of social work at St Louis University. Her research focuses on school violence and human trafficking. In addition, she teaches a course on human trafficking, and does outreach work to the community to educate people on human trafficking. Thank you so much for being here. Lisa that's what my kids calling you. Is it okay if I call you Dr. Lisa today. Absolutely. And I'm happy to be here thank you for inviting me. Yes, this is really exciting. So for our listeners I'll just quickly mention that Dr. Lisa and I met when I back when I used to work at the university. And she and I became friends because we were I think the only two faculty who had kids, we were the only parents in the department right.
That's right, that's right.
Yeah, so we noticed right away you know that sometimes our perspective on things was different in that we were always thinking about our family. And I, that's one of the reasons that I really wanted to have you on the podcast to talk about this topic, which isn't the most pleasant of all topics. Right.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right.
Kelly Williams
It's a heavy. It's a really heavy one. But it's so important for parents to know about. So, Let's, let's I can't I couldn't think of anyone better to help us kind of understand what is human trafficking and kind of how you know what what do we need to know about this. In order to, you know, know how to, how to help our kids stay safe on the internet. Yeah, it's, it is a heavy topic, it's, it's not something we want to talk about but I found through my research, and learning that it's really important. And it's happening more than we thought it was. And it's pretty serious so just thinking about being a parent, I really want to get that information out to everyone, and there's some myths also that go along with it, that don't help. So if we can get rid of some of those myths and really get down to the facts of what we know I think that'll help us as parents as well so human trafficking is the exploitation of someone for the purpose of labor or commercial sex acts, and it involves force, or fraud, or coercion. And some have called it modern day slavery, because people are kind of tricked, and trapped into doing things that they didn't necessarily understand that they were going to be doing. And certainly didn't want to do, but then are really trapped and can't get out of that terrifying. Really, and yes, I, I think for myself I mean this is one of them miss this problem doesn't happen in the United States. It is, it is or a myth that people are trafficked into the US and it doesn't happen to our own citizens but that's not true. The US is a destination country. and it's one of the biggest buyers of human trafficking so we buy a lot of trafficking which we're usually not aware of because it could be through labor, or it could be through sex trafficking. So it does happen in the US, it does happen to our own citizens can be the victims and yes we all saw traffic from the outside, into the US.
So, that like is making my brain hurt
a little bit.
There are people living in our communities who are buying
sex slaves or labor slaves.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Absolutely, yes.
It can be children, it can be adolescence, it can be adults, it's men, and it's women. It's really, it can be anyone, there's no real profile of what a victim is, except that they are vulnerable in some way. And that vulnerability is what the traffickers play on to lure and pull them into this situation, thinking just as a human, and as a therapist I think that we're all vulnerable at different points, and I can imagine myself feeling like I'm not gonna fall for this.
Teresa Vanpelt
But, and I think a lot of people
probably are in that similar situation like oh I would never fall for that but
I'm guessing that they're pretty savvy.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Absolutely. We've all fallen for you know and mistaken someone to be someone who we thought they were but they weren't whether that was dating or friendships, or collegial things right. So we've all fallen and Miss took someone for their true intent. And so, I think it can happen to anyone actually because we've had victims who were very well educated, very wealthy
to,
you know, the very impoverished or people who are homeless or people who are refugees so it really can happen to anyone Teresa.
Teresa Vanpelt
Yeah, and I can imagine I know that
in the times where I thought someone was someone different and I trusted them, and they turned out to be someone different I just know how embarrassed. I felt, and how I didn't really in the shame and I didn't want to tell people and I can imagine that if someone can, you know, once they realize that they're in this situation like that would be really hard to reach out to other people to let them
know you know if there's a time that they can.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right. And the traffickers are really adept at luring people in but also keeping people in so another myth is we often see these pictures of like people chained to beds or locked in a room that actually rarely happens, the trafficker controls people by manipulating by emotional abuse by physical abuse, sexual abuse shaming them isolating them from friends and family, getting them addicted to drugs so they actually control them a lot like domestic violence if you know anything about that or dating violence, they kind of control them, psychologically. And so they don't do these kind of things of locking people away so that makes it even harder than for this victim to get away from the trafficker or that labor trafficking, or sexual trafficking that they're in.
Teresa Vanpelt
I know that you had mentioned that there
that oftentimes it involves
the victim
being vulnerable in some ways can you kind of give examples of the vulnerabilities that that you're talking about. Absolutely. So, lots of times, you know, we'll see kids who were running away, or they're homeless, they are very vulnerable, then to a trafficker. Victims of trauma or child abuse have that history now, and they are vulnerable people with mental health problems. Maybe they're isolated maybe they're impulsive. Maybe they're anxious or worried or don't have many support systems. They are vulnerable. And in addition, just our typical kids who right now in the pandemic are bored. They're lonely, and they're online a lot. So, any of those are examples of being extra vulnerable to traffickers. Lisa you study. I don't even know how do you Where do you get the data for the research that you do, I guess because I'm what I'm getting at is, you study the cases of people that have come forward to survive this awful experience right but but how many people are out there that that we might not know about you know how prevalent Do you think this problem really is. It's hard to say because it is a covert, and secretive type of crime. But when we look at the numbers. And for any listeners who are interested, Polaris project is a great site to go to a respected site that really details and collects data on human trafficking and provides a lot of other information as well. But there's over 40 million victims worldwide and this is a worldwide problem. And it's 100 and $50 billion industry so it's the third largest crime in the world behind drug trafficking, and firearm trafficking so human trafficking is the third largest crime, across the globe, if you will. It's a huge problem. Well, we get our data from a few different points. The victims who have called in the Polaris project, they have data out there so that's wonderful to have. And I also work closely with the Pasco County Sheriff's department where we're tracking human trafficking crimes that are coming through. And so that's another way to look at that and see but there are so many that are out there that are secret and undercover that we don't know about. If you think about the Jeffrey Epstein case as an example of human trafficking.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
And that went on
for decades. And it's been years and years now since it happened but it took that long to really uncover and really start believing the victims when they did come forward and actually very few of all of his victims have actually come forward. Right, I could see where and I guess this is the heart. This is the reason why we want parents to know this information right because one of the reasons why it's so hard to come forward, is the lack of understanding, you know, the shame about how I got into this and and I don't know how to get out of it, and the fear that other people aren't going to understand and aren't going to help me. Maybe. Absolutely. The traffickers, might speak just a little bit about how they luer. And what kind of tactics they use because that might help the listeners understand how kids can get pulled into this, or even adults, but
they they follow online
or try to find these people who are a little vulnerable maybe they're sad depressed, that abuse background have some mental health problems they're lonely they're bored, and they get to talking to them. And that could be a lot online, but it could be face to face, and they start befriending them, and they're listening to them, which is the most important part and they're getting them to talk and tell them about themselves, their family, their situation. And they appear to be this wonderful wonderful friend to this vulnerable person, they're listening they're supportive, they're kind, and they're listening for what that person needs. Are they homeless do they need money, do they need shelter do they need food do they, you know, need a place to stay a hot shower, are they online and you know no one understands them their parents are going through a divorce or they're just bored or they're being abused at home they listen. And they're taking that in and they're providing something to them that they need love kindness food, gifts, money, all of that. So, I might just, you know, as you are saying, with this vulnerability is I can't help but think from a developmental perspective, you're basically describing whatever human goes through in adolescence. Absolutely, and especially now right we're really all isolated a lot and we're lonely, we're bored for sure.
Teresa Vanpelt
Definitely check off that list.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
Right. Right. And so this wonderful person is coming into their lives and giving them the things, the very things that they're needing and looking for. And before long, you know, and this can be months that they take to make this relation have been kind of. Yeah, and maybe at some point they say you know I want to be your boyfriend or girlfriend I love you and there's this and that going on.
And then before long,
Kelly Williams
maybe, you know, I, they send the user a naked picture, all that's fun that's funny you do one now, you know, and then they send one back, and now they've got, right, because now I can tell your parents, I can show this to anyone. Because you sent that picture, or maybe they've sent some pornography just to normalize it make it like it's no big deal. This is what people do. And then we start going from there. They may ask to meet up with them at the park at the mall as the whatever, and start getting to know them so the violence and abuse and terribleness comes after this whole time where they've been wonderful. And so, and develop this relationship. Right. And I know from, you know I guess the current social workers, we have to do you know this ongoing training right to kind of stay up to date in the changing landscape of things that impact mental health. Right. And so one of the, one of the things that I have noticed in the years, and many years now. I've been a social worker is the perception, like how our kids understand their safety or risk online. You know, we have done the talking. And we do the teaching to our kids and they can say to us. Yes, I understand. I know that I can't trust everybody that's online. But when we when researchers look at what kids know about how to keep themselves safe, and then compare it to what they do. They see this difference as if the kids. They logically know, but from an emotional standpoint, they are still conned by this they still make the mistake, they still reveal things to people who they really don't know. Because once they get a sense that, you know, once they feel like they know the person they think they do. Does that make sense. Yes, absolutely. And the traffickers who are, you know, adults are very well trained and honed. This is their job, they're experts in doing this so they're very good at doing this. And remember, you know, they're like, 25, and our kids are what kids tend to 20, you know, or whatever so they have that age advantage they have the expertise advantage to con them from the power, and the power
Teresa Vanpelt
of differences in the sign of power.
Dr. Lisa Rapp-McCall
And the other thing is some of our traffickers are women because women are very good at listening we're great at making and having relationships, and the traffickers if you think of it like a business. This is like a hierarchy. So the head traffic or, you know, maybe a male, but he knows that women can bring in more people because people will trust adult women more than adult men. Again, I'll go back to the Jeffrey Epstein example, his counterpart his partner in crime delaine,
a woman
would go and get many of the girls for him because they trusted her, they said she seemed like a big sister she was real nice and she listened and she gave me money and help and advice. Yeah, it's, it's hard, you can't blame anyone for getting pulled into it. Right, right. So if if parents suspect that their child might be involved somehow it's really, really important for parents to understand it is not your child. It's not the kids fault. Right, Absolutely, yeah and you know I think from again like a cultural perspective as social workers in domestic violence and child abuse in sexual trauma treatment, you know, that's always been part of the work has been to. We have to convince people that this isn't your fault. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's a lot like child abuse, and family violence, domestic violence we spend a lot of time trying to explain, and help that victim realize that they were the true victim and not, you know, part of the problem. And you're right, it does take so long, but it is very similar human trafficking is very similar to that. And remember, they also know things about them so they can say, if you don't continue to do that, I'm going to kill your dog. I know where you live. And I know how much you love little hit out fluffy. So they will directly threaten, or I'm gonna get your sister involved in this, your little sister. I'm going to tell your parents I'm going to send these naked pictures around, you know because I can get on your Facebook account and your Instagram account and whatever and whatnot.
They threaten them. Yeah.
Kelly Williams
It's really, you know, and I want to,
I guess I want to move more into prevention. Right. This is really hard to think about and I know, as a parent of a tween, and a teenager, myself, that I feel so powerless to help them especially my teenager, you know right he's just 18 years old, and I don't feel able at this point to control what he's doing on the internet. You know I'm kind of I feel like I'm at the place where I have to trust that what I've taught him, you know, up to now, and our relationship is gonna be the thing that's gonna keep him safe because I can't keep him off of it. Does that make sense right like I clamp it down I can't just say, Okay, this scares me. I'm not gonna let you have it, like that's not an option here, you know, right, right. And at that age too. I mean, who's telling 15 year olds what to listening right they're not listening to us very well so you're right, we can't just say, you know, you can't be on your laptop or phone they actually have to have it for school now so you can't just automatically do that so we have to think of some different ways to try to prevent and get them to try to understand. Yeah.
Teresa Vanpelt
The second
part of the series The second interview is going to be more focused on what we can do to protect our kids. But I think Kelly brought up a good point about kind of showing your kids and whatever ways that you're open, they're not going to. You're not going to give you more of an understanding. Yeah, you know, when I think about it, I remember I'm gonna, I'm going to give away my age here, but do you remember when mom's Against Drunk Driving first became a thing right and they had a PSA on TV and it said, you know, have this conversation with your kids, no matter what if you are somewhere, and you're in trouble. You can call me, no questions. Right. And like the PSA about in the moment if there's trouble. You know how do you how do you convey to your child that you come to your parents, and you will be safe, right, like, like I can promise you I'm not going to overreact. I'm not going to shame, you're not going to whatever whatever. And I kind of like the internet. Maybe we need to start the same kind of thing there right like if you get in trouble online, come to me and I promise I won't freak out, you know, but I think we have to show them and other parts of our lives that we don't freak out about things, because if we freak out about other things and we say we're not going to this time.
Kelly Williams
Yeah, then
I'll speak for myself. Do you know
that my kids understand how the internet better than I do. You know like I don't think I'm normally freaking out. Although, you know, they might tell you otherwise. But when I don't understand what's happening because I just my brain doesn't understand the technology like they do. They, they perceive it as I'm freaking out because I'm asking so many questions like, right, like how did they write, you know this kind of thing. And so, it's that like it's kind of that problem that I'm talking about like how do you help that in order to to create this safe space for them to come to you, you know. Right. Well I think in our next episode I have some tips that parents might be able to take away, and I'm no tech expert either but the tech experts have taught us a few things that we can do which are basic and might help parents kind of deal with that.
I cannot wait to hear it.
Teresa Vanpelt
Yeah. So I hope you guys join us for the second part in the series where Lisa shares some tips and ideas on how we can keep our kiddos safe. Thank you for listening to the parenting balanced podcast, to join our mailing list, go to parenting balanced. COMM slash podcast. When you join you will be notified of upcoming live q&a. You can help us plan future episodes, we'd
love to hear comments and questions.
Kelly Williams
You can reach us by email. Hello at parenting balanced calm. And if you found this information helpful, please share it with anyone else who can benefit and subscribe and give us a rating on your podcast platform. And until then remember, different isn't wrong.